PODCAST: Squid Game / Ep. 10
On this special Episode 10 of the ATC Presents Daebak K-Rambles Podcast, we had to talk about the worldwide phenomenon that is Squid Game, starring Lee Jung-Jae, Park Hae-Soo, Jung Ho-Yeon, and Wi Ha-Joon.
Jess and special guest Miguel talk through the Netflix thriller, including the fascinating central theme, the most compelling characters, the predictable plot beats, the impact the show has had on the world, and more!
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Episode Transcription: The First 30 Minutes
Jessica Firpi 0:00 Hi I'm Jessica and this is ATC presents Daebak K-Rambles where a couple of friends review Korean dramas, except it is just me today. Rico did not watch the show that we're going to talk about today. Welcome, everyone to this very special episode of Daebak K-Rambles. We are on hiatus right now season 2 is going to drop early 2022. So be on the lookout for that. But there was a massive upheaval in the world of K-drama with regards to a Netflix show that has taken the world by storm. And so me and my special guest today are going to talk through Squid Game. Rico has a brother, and his brother's name is Miguel. And Miguel is here with me today to talk about Squid Game. Welcome, Miguel.
Miguel Albarracin 1:04 Thanks very much for having me. Especially for Squid Game. Here we go.
Jessica Firpi 1:09 Yeah, this kind of came about because I was starting Squid Game. And just before I started it, you were texting me about Squid Game. And so I was like, Oh my god. Miguel's watching Squid Game. So I got very excited. We really didn't talk about our thoughts at all about the show, but we did happen to finish around the same time. So I was like, Oh, perfect. Miguel, do you want to come on Daebak? And you're like, yeah! So what is your history with K-drama and, you know, with with me and everything?
Miguel Albarracin 1:44 So, history with K-drama and history with you are actually pretty intertwined. I started watching K-drama back in 2008 or 2009. Back when before the streaming, before Dramafever, before Netflix, you know, go to the Korean market, and like try to find these loose DVDs and little plasticine covers with bad subtitles. But like I would pick them up and I would just I would watch all of them. For the longest time. I didn't know anybody who watched Korean dramas, like at all like everyone watches manga, or rather anime, or this or that. But then I met Jessica, and I remember making an off the cuff remark about this Korean show I was watching and you just like froze. You're like, wait, you watch Korean dramas? I was like yeah, I watch a lot of Korean dramas, then more than now. But for years, I would just watch these shows. You know, like, this is digging way back now, but like Coffee Prince. Yeah, super way back. Well, there's so many, but there was a lot and I watched a lot of those and I moved on to movies. Then I moved on to Korean music. Suffice it to say, I'm here and there with Korean stuff all the time. And I'm glad I met Jess because for the longest time, we would just like geek out about all these new Korean shows. It's crazy that it's exploded the way that it has.
Jessica Firpi 3:08 Oh my God, tell me about it.
Miguel Albarracin 3:11 It's insane. Like
Jessica Firpi 3:12 When we were talking about this, years ago, we were the odd people out like nobody knew about K dramas. Nobody was talking about K dramas. And it was like uncool, like people around us would make fun of us for consuming foreign entertainment.
Miguel Albarracin 3:29 And even somebody who would be you know if somebody was willing. Okay, sure. That sounds really interesting. Where can I watch it? Well, do you know the Korean market on Pines? If you go to the back, pass the little fridge with the coffees and you make a left and right before the dehydrated fish, you're gonna find a shelf of movies. And they're like, oh, yeah, all right. Yeah, impossible. Impossible to watch.
Jessica Firpi 3:54 It's so much easier to consume K dramas and Korean movies and just general entertainment today than it was so many years ago, where you had to like, buy DVDs and find it in the supermarkets. It was just not accessible like it is today. And this show that we're gonna talk about in just a few minutes is like the culmination of the streaming, just being like the perfect storm.
Miguel Albarracin 4:21 This is the big payoff. This is the big coming together to show that Korean media is finally on the map. And I'm here for it, if not a little bit spurned, but you know,
Jessica Firpi 4:32 Okay, we'll get into it, don't spoil it. That's how I feel too. It's like, okay, now on this show? Okay, before we get started, if this is your first time listening, go ahead and subscribe on your favorite podcast app. We're on Apple podcast, Spotify, Google podcasts, and many more. If you like us, please, please give us a review on Apple podcasts. That's gonna go such a long way for us to be heard by more listeners. Come and check us out on social media to stay up to date on our latest episodes and reviews. You can find us on Twitter and Instagram @atcdaebakpod. And lastly, if you're a fan, please consider becoming a patron. It's a great way for you to get involved and show your support. You can check out the page on patreon.com/alwayscriticpod, which is our main movie podcast. Okay, we're gonna talk about Squid Game now. The MyDramaList synopsis. Do you want to give that to us, Miguel?
Miguel Albarracin 5:24 Alright, yeah, sure my drama list synopsis. After a failed business venture, the debt ridden chauffeurs Seong Gi-Hun, lives his life gambling away the money that he mooches off of his elderly mother while failing to provide for her and his estranged daughter. When his life finally hits rock bottom, he receives an irresistible offer promising him 45.6 billion won prize in exchange for winning traditional Korean children's games against 455 other players. Among them as his childhood friend Cho Sang-Woo and commencing the games the participants soon learn of the deadly consequences that come with losing these games. Ooh, boy.
Jessica Firpi 6:02 And that's to put it lightly, I feel. Deadly consequences but come on. This aired in its entirety on September 17, 2021. It is a Netflix original show. It is only nine episodes long. And it is written and directed by the same dude Hwang Dong-Hyuk. This is his first drama series ever. He is coming from the cinema world. He wrote and directed Miss Granny from 2014 and Silenced from 2011. Both great movies. I have never watched Silence, but I have watched Miss Granny. Miss Granny's hysterical, definitely give it a watch. So let's go through our cast really fast. We have Lee Jung-Jae plays Seong Gi-Hun, and he's player 455. He's the main character in the show. We have Park Hae-Soo plays Cho Sang-Woo, and he is a childhood friend also playing the Squid Game. Wi Ha-Joon plays Hwang Jun-Ho and he is a cop. And we'll leave it at that. Yeah. And then we have a host of side characters, which I know that we'll go through and talk about. So their real names are Jung Ho-Yeon, Oh Young-Soo, Tripathi Anupam, Kim Joo-Ryung, man that was tough. Heo Sung-Tae, Gong Yoo, Lee Byung-Hun, and Kim Young-Ok. We can talk really fast about these people. So Lee Jung-Jae. Sorry, is player 456. My bad, I said 455 earlier. He has been a Korean cinema staple since 1994. He's been in movies like Il Mare. I say Il Mare. How do you say that?
Miguel Albarracin 7:57 I think it's Ill Maray.
Jessica Firpi 7:59 Is it? In my mind, it's Ill Mare, but like I don't think that I have it right, anyway.
Miguel Albarracin 8:05 Oh, no, it Yeah, it might be Italian right? Il Mare. Like
Jessica Firpi 8:08 I don't even know. Okay. Il Mare from 2000. That's the the movie that The Lake jouse is based on. So if you seen Keanu and Sandy in The Lake House, Il Mare is the movie that that's based on. He's also been in The House Maid from 2010. I sent you the synopsis for this movie and I sent you a couple of screens still. I was like, I'm being kind of traumatized by this movie. I wanted to put it behind me. It's an erotic movie, like, almost like a thriller, but not really. It's jarring. I don't know if I recommend it to you guys. But he is definitely a stud in that movie.
Miguel Albarracin 9:04 He's got range so.
Jessica Firpi 9:06 He's got range. The boy has range. And he's also been in the movie Assassination from 2015, which is really excellent. I would definitely recommend that movie to anybody. Park Hae-Soo is his childhood friend in the show. He has been on the TV show Prison Playbook and in movies like Time to Hunt from 2020 and Persona in 2019, which is kind of like a short story. Episodic sort of movie I can't even call it a movie really. But it's very weird. It is an anthology. That's the word I was looking for. And it stars IU. Both of those movies you can watch on Netflix. And then we have I just I guess we should talk about Wi Ha-Joon the cop because he has kind of exploded out of the show. Everyone is just so riled up, yeah, keep your pants on, people. It's not that serious, but he was in Romance Is a Bonus Book and Something in the Rain. Both of those shows are available on Netflix. So this show has taken the world by storm. As we said before, it is Netflix's biggest ever series launch. It was number one on the platform for weeks, it's been watched by two-thirds of all Netflix users. That amounts to 144 million subscribers that have watched at least two minutes of Squid Game. That's insane.
Miguel Albarracin 10:33 In one, there was a few days there where it was number one in 90 countries. Number one in 90 countries. And something that really brought that to light was just the process of getting it made. There's a story floating around and I managed to look into it. And it's like, oh, okay, so it's real. The creator of the show wrote this way back in 2009. Like this was like done ages ago. And he shopped it around and shopped it around and nobody wanted it. At some point he hit financial situation so bad. He even had to sell the laptop that he wrote the story on. It was like, it was basically like a Korean drama. And then a few years pass, you know, Korean media gets more attention. And look, it's number one everywhere. Look at all these people just watching this Korean show. And all the Dubs.
Jessica Firpi 11:23 Yeah, I know. The dubs! We'll talk about that in a second. But that story reminds me of Sylvester Stallone, and Rocky, because he wrote Rocky when he was like dirt poor and really struggling. He had to sell his like, beloved dog and all this stuff. And then when he finally made the movie and inked a deal for him to also star in it, he started making money and he went to go buy his dog back. He was like this crazy success story. I don't know why I remember that about the dog. I know it's like the first thing you do is get back the thing you love. This show I cannot stress to you guys how many people have watched this show, how it is now in the zeitgeist, for a K drama to be this prolific. I mean, I'm proud I feel very proud and ecstatic that people are actually watching a K drama.
Miguel Albarracin 12:18 And they're putting their money where their mouth is too because for Halloween, this statistic came out with the Vans they all wear plain white Vans in the show. The sale of plain white Vans worldwide increased over 7,000%. White vans for the first time in ages were sold out for one day, they were sold out. Everybody's gonna be wearing this for Halloween. This is Halloween. You can't take two steps in any direction without seeing a meme about the show. Like, it's everywhere. Like it's so it really resonated with people, it struck a nerve in a good way.
Jessica Firpi 13:01 I want to know what you think. Why did you think it did so well?
Miguel Albarracin 13:07 I think there's a few things at play. I think that the concept itself about playing childhood games, but with deadly stakes is fascinating for anyone. If you tell us like oh, we're gonna play tag, okay, cool. But then you play a tag and the stakes are, oh, you need to win or you're gonna die. I think that really catches a lot of people's attention. There's a certain underdog element going on. There's a lot of people in bad financial situations in the show trying to overcome that. And we to appear at different versions of the same story. Not everybody's broke for the same reason. They all have their motives. We all want to cheer on the person who doesn't seem like they're getting a fair shake. So I think there's a lot of themes here that are interesting across so many cultures like childhood games, and you know, don't die. And a chance to like, against all odds, get rich and get out of every problem. Yeah, I think that's something that really works with a lot of people.
Jessica Firpi 14:10 Yeah, I think that people were surprised by the violence as well, which is pretty unusual for even a K drama to have this much. For a western audience, I think that was probably the best idea. We're living in a you know, an HBO age where you can watch anything you want and there's not really a cap on it, a limit on what they can do in television shows that aren't on cable
Miguel Albarracin 14:44 And lamp shading doesn't seem to work with a lot of people anymore. Like people don't want that old trick where for example, let's say someone gets shot and they move away and you know, the camera moves away only shows a shadow of someone being killed. We've seen so much now, people want a visceral look. Oh, that's what happened to this person. So it definitely works. It worked for me.
Jessica Firpi 15:07 One last thing we'll talk about before we get into our thoughts is the translation woes and the ugly dub that happened on this show. So I didn't necessarily feel the translation badness when I was watching it, because I have a little bit more of a trained ear and was like, filling in the blanks, you know, with my own knowledge of the culture and stuff. And things like when people say, like, Hyung, and in the translation, it says their name, I'm like, that's not what they said. You know?
Miguel Albarracin 15:42 Or like, when they say doctor instead of their name.
Jessica Firpi 15:46 Right, exactly. So what did you think of the translation and the dub, which I personally have not seen this show dubbed
Miguel Albarracin 15:58 The dub. So just for context, for listeners out there, I'm really, really big into like linguistics, I love different languages. So if there's ever a dub for something, I'm the person who watches like the compilation of a Disney song in 40 different languages, like I love to see what they do. I love to see how they go about translating stuff. So I sat there, and I watched a quarter of the first episode in every dub, after I had already seen it fully in Korean. So I watched the first like 20 minutes or first 15 minutes in English and in French and in Spanish. And so it was great. But it wasn't great, because the English, I think, let me go with the translation first. As far as translations go, they did a much better job than what they could have done. There's so many nuances with the language and the culture that just aren't going to translate. The show is already working on the assumption that you are Korean, you know what games they're playing, you know what it means if this happens, then that happens. So to translate everything the way that they did, and somehow communicate everything for a global audience, is a massive undertaking. There are some things unfortunately, like some poetic phrases and stuff that are lost in translation. But I feel like when you're translating something this complex, it's probably best to be a little more utilitarian instead of poetic. The dub quality of the actors in English I thought were very poor. Like it was just, it wasn't distractingly bad. And we'll talk about distractingly bad because there's a whole English thing that goes on in this show, but we'll talk about that in the spoiler space. The French dub, believe it or not, was really good. The Spanish dub is really really good. Like they translate a lot of like the poetic stuff that gets lost when moving into English. But in general, just watch the Korean one. Like, just watch it subbed. Like I understand it's not for everyone, but that's really going to be the only way that you get the emotion, the passion. Just watch it. Yeah, but they did a good job. If you have to watch a dub. It's fine. And if you know if you don't know Korean, the subs, they work. They do what they're supposed to do.
Jessica Firpi 18:21 Okay, so with that being said, we've come to the end of our our general Netflix success bit. What did you think of Squid Game, Miguel?
Miguel Albarracin 18:34 Overall? I liked it a lot. Like a lot a lot. Yeah. Until the very end.
Jessica Firpi 18:44 Oh, the ending? Yes.
Miguel Albarracin 18:46 I love the show. From beginning literally until the ending. Because then it turned into this whole thing. Are we in spoiler space now?
Jessica Firpi 18:57 No, no, we are not in spoiler space. I'll announce it.
Miguel Albarracin 19:00 Anyway. It was a nearly perfect show. That's how I felt about it. It was nearly perfect. And I still like it. I'll still recommend it with disclaimers. But it's a near perfect show. And I think with all the memes and all the culture and everything, look, like it's nine episodes. It's an essential watch officially like you have to watch it. But you know, I liked it very much.
Jessica Firpi 19:27 You liked it very much.
Miguel Albarracin 19:28 I liked it very much. Choices were made.
Jessica Firpi 19:34 Okay. So I also really liked the show. I think that a lot of people were put off by the violence, put off by the blood and gore and guts and just general queasiness of the subject matter. But I think that it really works for me. I don't know why but my sensibilities they don't necessarily lean toward gore and violence and all this stuff but I seem to be really comfortable with it
Miguel Albarracin 20:02 It never felt gratuitous.
Jessica Firpi 20:04 Never felt gratuitous to me. I never checked out. I was never like, Oh no, that crossed the line. I was just like, okay, that's par for the course. I know what I'm getting into as soon as the first episode, or the first game necessarily, gets going, then I'm like, Okay, I've strapped in like, I'm ready. So I think if you have gotten this far into the episode, and you have not watched Squid Game, and that's not your bag, then sorry, don't watch it. Like I totally understand where you're coming from. That's the reason why Rico didn't watch it. He's like, no, no, it doesn't interest me in the slightest. That's not my bag.
Miguel Albarracin 20:40 Yeah, I mean, and I will say that it if you're worried about violence, it's less like Saw violent. You know, it's less like Serbian film violence, Texas Chainsaw Massacre violent. It's not that kind of violent. This is violence with stakes. Like, I think that's why it feels so grounded. Like, yeah, it gets bloody but nothing is ever beyond the pale. And nothing's ever really. So if, you know, if you're worried that it's going to be really gratuitous over the top violence, it's probably not going to be like that either. So but yeah, it does get gory.
Jessica Firpi 21:17 It does get gory blood is spilt. And I totally admire the overall theme of the show, which is class inequality in South Korea. This is a huge, basically the thesis of the show, right. And I appreciate that this theme seems to be cropping up more and more. You know, Parasite dealt with that as well, like class inequality. And actually, there was another Netflix, this was actually a movie. And it was a Spaniard movie called The Platform.
Miguel Albarracin 21:57 The panna cotta is the way. Yeah.
Jessica Firpi 22:04 That was a very gratuitous movie. It was shot incredibly well, it shook me. Like I had to like, take a breather, I had to go on a walk or something after I watched that movie because it was so much.
Miguel Albarracin 22:17 I can't actually so something really terrible happens in that movie. And I was eating a rice ball full of sour plum, which used to be one of my favorite foods. I haven't been able to eat it since. Because every time I taste sour plum, I see the vision of a clip from The Platform. Like I'm scarred like that movie was like a lot.
Jessica Firpi 22:40 And I guess maybe cuz I've like worked up a tolerance to this sort of thing. Like, again, Squid Game didn't feel gratuitous or over the top, necessarily, to me. What were the best parts of the show for you?
Miguel Albarracin 22:56 Um, I'm gonna go ahead and agree with a theme. I think that not only, it explores inequality, but it also explores like, what does somebody who's gotten themself into a situation deserve? How much does society, like how much is it for us to say, this person's life is expendable. Because of what this person has done to themselves, they're worthless. I think that there's a very big question that's asked throughout the show of that, like, as, you know, players start falling away. The question just keeps getting louder in the background. It's like, okay, yeah, I gambled away my money. I did this, I lost that, I neglected this, but I'm still human. Do I deserve to fight to the death just so I can get a leg up? And I found that really, that was really stirring. I really liked the individual motives. The show did a very good job, and this is why it's not gratuitous. Instead of just here's this group of people all competing for this say the way Battle Royale would do it. In Squid Game, it's not a spoiler, but they take an episode to show multiple points of view, we get away from the protagonist. And we spend a day in the life with all of these people in the financial situations. They're running into their own personal stakes and why they have to play this game. So it's a very humanized, grounded show, especially for something so violent and so over the top, I think they did a great job of connecting the whole motive and human condition of it all. I love that about the show.
Jessica Firpi 24:33 I agree with you wholeheartedly. What is the price of a human life? Is it however much debt you owe? Is that your you know, the price of your head so to speak? Or is it more? Is it less because of where you come from, your background, your class, so to speak? These are questions that the show does not explicitly ask. It's asking in the subtext.
Miguel Albarracin 25:03 And they all wonder through the whole thing.
Jessica Firpi 25:08 Yeah, yeah. Okay, and what were the worst parts of the show for you?
Miguel Albarracin 25:15 The spoiler free worst parts of the show?
Jessica Firpi 25:16 Spoiler free worst parts. And then you know what, we'll jump into spoilers right after your answer.
Miguel Albarracin 25:21 All right, I think the worst part of the show it had uneven pacing. Like there was times where I was like, go, go, go, and you're all in and it's awesome. And everything is great. But I felt like there were a couple of episodes or a couple of parts in the show where it comes to almost a halt. And it's such a change in pace and energy, that it kind of threw me off. So, you know, that's one thing. But other than that, nothing really, I really didn't have many complaints about the show in general. And nothing really, I think that was the thing, just someone even pacing.
Jessica Firpi 26:03 Okay, I can agree with some uneven pacing, I can agree with maybe some English speakers in the show not being like,
Miguel Albarracin 26:13 Oh, that. Yeah. I'll agree with that.
Jessica Firpi 26:16 Yeah, yeah. We'll talk about that for sure. So those would be my couple of nitpicks. Maybe? No, I think the OST is pretty standout, especially the main song that's in all of the TikTok videos. Yeah, it's really memorable. So that's a positive for me. I don't know if I can forgive them for using my favorite waltz in the show as well Blue Danube.
Miguel Albarracin 26:50 Oh, yeah, that was that was pretty rough. I was like, it's gonna be PTSD whenever that comes up now.
Jessica Firpi 26:56 Yeah, I was kind of upset that they use that particular waltz in the show, but it's classical music. I mean, it's fair game. All right. So I think we've given our general thoughts and a couple of nitpicks for the show, but I know that you're chomping at the bit to talk spoilers for this show. So we're gonna talk spoilers right after this.
Alright, so we're on the other side of spoilers. If you haven't watched Squid Game, you're about to be spoiled, FYI. Okay, where do you want to start, Miguel?
Miguel Albarracin 27:34 Oh, God, where do I want to start?
Jessica Firpi 27:36 I was gonna talk about the games. Yeah, that we could probably talk through the games real fast. So the first game is the red light green light. Or green light, red light, however you want to talk about it. It doesn't really matter. That's like the basic concept of the game, right?
Miguel Albarracin 27:58 Yeah, freeze when I turn around. Run when I'm turned away.
Jessica Firpi 28:02 Exactly. So how did you feel about that? It was in the very first episode.
Miguel Albarracin 28:09 So I saw all of the memes surrounding it. But I never saw how violent that was going to be. And I'm not used to seeing that in Korean dramas in general, like I'll see it like in a movie here or there, of course, but in a drama? Not at all. So once the first guy just gets shot, I'm like, Oh, shit, like this is gonna be like, this is real now. And then the second time you know another person gets shot, then they all scramble for the door. And it's just that no mercy like ballast of just being shot. It was really jarring. But it really cemented the stakes, like this show is not going to screw around. And I love that, even the voiceover that gives the rules for the games, it's like to repeat the game are and everyone's like, Oh, no. I loved it. It was a killer. Wow. It was a killer entrance to the show. Pun absolutely intended. It has that whole swing jazz, slow motion Fly Me To The Moon bit going. Whoo. And it did a great job of establishing the character of each person who's playing.
Jessica Firpi 29:22 Absolutely. I think that was the main goal of the first episode in that first game is to obviously weed out the non main players and introduce the main characters for us in an easier, high stakes way. I did like that they were playing in a school field and this is something that I feel like Western audiences might not get is that they're playing in a school field. That's the set or whatever that they're on, that arena is a school field. Do you want to talk about the significance of it being children's games?